Welcome to Homeschooling Homegirls episode five part 1- This episode was broken into 2 episodes.

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Enjoy raising empowered people ! Your Host Tiffany Sandoval



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Tiffany 0:00

Welcome to the Homeschooling Homegirls podcast. Join us as we take up space by sharing our BIPOC experiences in the homeschool / unschool world. I'm your host, Tiffany Sandoval. I spent most of the last 19 years in the homeschool/ unschool world listening to the advice from narratives that did not include me or anyone that was not from the white or white adjacent lived experience. This podcast is about elevating the voices that for far too long, have been silenced in the name of white fragility. My hope is that by sharing our stories, others can see that homeschooling and unschooling is one of many paths to raise empowered, educated people. stories will be shared from lived experiences, not theories, and different perspectives are encouraged to grab your coffee or your cocktail. And join us as we expand our perspectives.

Today's episode we're going to be kicking it with our homegirl Genesis. Today's episode split into two. The first half we're gonna be talking about the spark, doubt, boundaries Shadow Work BIPOC spaces and goodness. The second half is going to be about homeschooling groups, podcast purpose, problem solvin,g cancel culture, how to make your homeschool group safer. You can find Genesis on Facebook and Instagram and her website at

Nobody wants to have the ugly conversations or the uncomfortableness when kids either self select out of the group or, or people self select them out of the group or dating happens. I even see and Logan's eight year old group. So we started a book-club for BIPOC kids only. The first book I chose was Ghost Boys because I think it's so relevant. It's the beginning of the talk with Logan for me. It's a talk that Dylan begged me not to have with Logan. And because I had it with Dylan and I really believed it saved his life, when he had his interaction with cops, but even even after his his experience, he doesn't want me to take away Logan's innocence So I've been trying to navigate both of my kids knowing what I need to do and knowing where Dylan is coming from. The book, it starts with the main character's death and we were listening to it on our way to a camping trip. So we I knew we had a couple of hours it was we finished the book almost during the trip and we've listened to it twice since because I realized as Logan was listening to the book, he when things would get hard, he would check out. Because then we would stop it and then have a discussion. And then he's like, Oh, I didn't hear I didn't get that, or I didn't see that or whatever. And I realized that like, we do that a lot as adults, not just and kids do it, too. It's almost like they reached this where I can handle and then I can't, and I shut off. I think it's an amazing book. I think every person should read that book or listen to it, especially listen to it. Because it's told from the perspective of a 12 year old boy. And so I think that there's a lot out there from an adult's perspective, but to hear it from a child's perspective is important. And those books books like that are kind of what what the book clubs about it's not, I mean, some of them will be easier, but like those real things that kids need a way. I think adults need a way listening to that book three times gave me more tools than I think I've amassed in 40 years, right. And it talks about bias and racism and things that we I've been working on to think kids have a way of saying things. So simply these books, these conversations these hard, honest truth, like it's so much easier not to have them and but it doesn't mean that these topics aren't coming out in other ways to mean like a face even with friends, if you're going to be homeschooling with people, unschooling with a group of people, I was in a park day for eight years, and what got me on the outs was saying, how are we going to handle like, I'm seeing a bias and I'm seeing I'm like, I didn't even say racist, I said, bias. I'm seeing a bias with children. There's this white girl doing this and these two brown boys doing this and you guys are and what the boys are doing is not even a quarter of what this girl just did. And yet they're being asked out and this you know, this one Being coddled and and I got it from the brown the two brown kids mother mom, because she's white, I got it from the rest of the group. And and I was just saying bias. Like it wasn't even, you know having that was the beginning and how are we going to have our and how are we going to handle conflict resolution? Those are the two things that got me out of space. I had raised my kids and you know, and so I know I get it, find your group. Like I was fitting in a group I didn't belong. But having these conversations in the homeschool and school community, just like I feel like your voice is what Akilah was what? When I first heard her and what the way it started opening up and when I would see people at conferences, like lights just turn on left and right. Whether they had been doing this unschooling homeschooling thing for a long time or had just started it was because it wasn't just about education. It just didn't it was like a whole encompassing life philosophy. And I think when you talk about Shadow Work, it isn't in direction of just education or raise it's like it's yourself and raising children and being in relationship with other people that are also oppressed.

Genesis 6:14

Yeah, um, that was really juicy. And again, there's there's so many places you can go and there's so much wisdom and everything you shared. A couple of things stood out for me when you were talking about when you would try to create safe spaces for everyone to just, you know, be in the spaces. There is a period of time that I had to have a morning. It started with the morning of I can't just raise my children in a bubble and protect them from you know, the uglies in this in this life and over time, I started to recognize that it's and this is a, this is contextual. But it is not for me to protect them from everything. It is, of course for me to protect them from certain things, but their journey is theirs to have. And I think that's also true in the spaces of when we all come together and try to be with each other. Because I had to recognize and release any attachment to the way decolonizing looks right, deconstructing these ideas, unschooling, it's all Shadow Work. I mean, it's all the same, which is why that that idea, embodies all of it to me, it Simply is being accountable for yourself. I mean, it's just, you know, it's that I am accountable for the way I show up in space period. I'm accountable even with the unconscious aspects of the way I show up in space. And I think that in those circumstances I enter them. And I'm learning to how to inspire safety in those spaces, so that we can talk about things honestly.

And, I think unschooling what I learned is that sometimes we believe because of how colonized we all are, that there's only a few solutions to any given idea problem. When there is a whole infinite divine space you can pull from It's just that we don't, we're not expansive enough to perceive that because we are limited in our perception due to colonization, and due to a culture that doesn't inspire us to expand and so when we interspaces with each other, we're all working from those traumas. Right? And we're not we're not at a place yet where commonly, right we're not in a common place where we can all just kind of go into space and you know, it's smooth sailing the work sometimes is going to be uncomfortable the work sometimes it's going to feel cringy right? It's going to make people want to leave and you know, maybe pull your worst parts of you make you maybe want to gossip or, you know, other things. But really what it's asking of you is Oh, okay, I need to seek. I need to look at myself.

I need to look at what oh, What my emotionality is informing me. I need to look at the circumstance and see if there's a soul defense in the space. And I need to move from that space of consciousness not from a reactionary disposition. And that that's a that's a journey. You know. That's a journey that we're all on the journeys of dealing with homeschooling groups. I've had my own curious circumstances in different homeschooling groups, and I remember feeling obligated to provide these outlets for my children. And it was really difficult because I felt so invisible in the space is and I felt like my children were not Safe at all. And to have to spend hours like that. And, you know, be social is, is it's a lot. And it was something that was really a challenge for me and my children for a good long while I've had, you know, and if, in the moments when I've brought things to the space, really for the healing of all the space really, you know, it's always, you know, the, the denial of it, or that I'm bringing negativity into space when really I'm just bringing my experience and I'm getting gaslighted and so that that has been tricky. And I've learned that in the now that I no longer put placement myself in those spaces, it's just not an option for me anymore. And that my kids at this age now we can sort of have dialogues around healthy environments and and taking care of each other mommy's important too. And the places aren't healthy for mommy because of X, Y, or Z. And I don't speak to age appropriateness I speak to the human being that I'm speaking to. My son is at a certain place and and, you know, we evolve how to glow. My daughter is at a certain place and we evolve our flow, it's all unique and unschooling, there is no cookie cutter, space here, it's all relationship based. So I think the, the journey of this and always really is to bring our attention to self. So that in all these spaces whether we're in homeschooling groups, unschooling groups, and our families and our communities and our work spaces, we can learn to embody accountability. And, and that it's obligated, it doesn't matter that you didn't know. People, you know, they use willful ignorance as an excuse to skirt their obligations and accountability. And I don't, though, the world is clear that that does not work. Because if you look at what our lack of accountability is doing, we all recognize that we're in a pandemic. And before that, and simultaneously that concern is the state of the planet and our capacity to continue to endure on it. And so I think the idea that we are We can just move unconsciously in space, hopefully, is in its death throes now. And that we are reevaluating how we want to bring ourselves into space, what kind of world we want to have. We're forming new questions, write new explorations. There aren't any answers. You know, I almost always think there's just more questions. But the questions offer a pathway. They, their gifts. And I think it's a, I think that's why it's important that we engage in these kinds of dialogues that are hard, because without it, you stay in those limited constructs of thinking. And when we press the edges of those constructs, we can get to a wider vision which allows us a deeper exploration of But what's possible?

Tiffany 15:05

Yeah, I wish that people understood or the people I went to understood that I wasn't that I was giving them an opportunity to create something better. When I said when I look at this with my kids and this is the car this is the part that kind of makes me sad when I think about these other people's kids. If someone comes at you and says, You're hurting me, and your response is No, I'm not. Right? I just need to look at it another way. And that is so violent because one that is more violent than I think anything other than putting your hands on somebody, because it took vulnerability to be able to say stop, you're hurting me or stop you're hurting somebody else because then you know that you're if the response to your vulnerability is denial or dismissive. sickness then you are you tell people right away that you're not safe. So for anybody that's wanting to, just in my experience, be nice and have a nice way. So everybody gets along, let's just not talk about it because you know, just makes everybody uncomfortable. That is so violent. And I wish that people would understand the violence that that is because I think people when people hear the term violence, they're thinking that it needs to be physical or it needs to be, you know, you need to be cussed out and you need to be humiliated. And that is what happening when someone comes to you and says, You're hurting me. And you dismiss it, or you act like that's not happening and when you and when I see adults do that, that means that the children that they are raising are watching the adults do that over and over again. So what's gonna happen when they're in that situation? What You know, and so we talk a lot one of the other things I got really Oh, I got ousted. I think we finally did me in when I saw it happening to my son and I labeled it as toxic and all the crunchy cannoli yoga mamas were like, how dare you call my kid toxic? How dare you? And I was like, No, the relationships that are being created are toxic. Our kids are learning to talk about each other and to set up to each other our kids are learning to label instead of trying to understand where and why this is coming from. Because I don't think anybody acts out. for the fun of it, you act out because you're taught that you can't, at least for me, I acted out because I wasn't allowed to have feelings. I wasn't allowed to express how I felt. So it came out of me in another way. Or I acted out when I tried to use my words and Nobody wanted to listen. So I made them listen. And I think we and the homeschool I talked about this in a I think the podcast with Laurie. I don't know, maybe it was Priscilla strong willed kids. Um, even when Logan was a baby, I would leave Park day when he was nobody really got to see Logan in his full logon. Because they didn't let it happen because I didn't want him labeled because I saw how other kids were labeled at a very young age and it followed them all the way through. And it's hard when you're in a tight knit space or community and your kid is the kid that just can't get it together like everybody else's kid or doesn't want to get it together like everybody else's kid wants to be home because they're allowed to be holds other spaces. And so, again, this podcast isn't there's a lot of podcasts out there for like Had homeschool perfectly and how to have the perfect product and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This isn't that this is like, Yes, I wanted to create a space that I wish I heard people say, Yeah, my kid is the kid that can get it together. And I don't care, I don't want them to have to get it together or I'm the parent that isn't going to do all the things that the other parents are doing. And I'm okay with that. I just need to not feel so isolated. And being myself. Um, so it's not a how to podcast to create this, or how to space of creating. It's more of you're not alone. There's lots of people like us doing the work to create spaces that we needed, that weren't there or we tried to create and we were violently nicely excluded from the, from the places those are good.

So and to say like these are the ways in which we lessons learned because I think If we can share what didn't work, or what we tried and how it didn't work for us, it doesn't mean it won't work for somebody else. But maybe it saves that parent and that kid, the hurt that we know.

Genesis 20:13

Yeah. I like what you're talking about. Because I think, you know, I think I'm going to try to say this succinctly, but actually, what a piece on it is pretty long. So, I'm going to try to sort of condense it, but we live in a culture that thinks relatively right, it thinks in binary, you know, like, black and white, good and evil. You know, big and small. I mean, you know, it's a relative culture that we live in, and we and we don't recognize that relativity has Place, but really, we live in a quantum universe, which means that there's parity with each other, with that lack of knowing, right. So, when I listen to you talking about the ways in which we would, you know, you were trying to create space with other people and how there was no room this is this is colonized, thinking again, because we can absolutely you know, evolve new questions that allow space. And I always like to say new questions as opposed to, there is problem solving that happens right but sometimes, problem solve themselves. Sometimes they need a little assistance and it's all contextual. But I think in the, in the big context of groups, that it's really important that we try to bring an unschooling a decolonial energy to the space for for those places that we don't understand. Because simultaneously I, you know, I have a very fiery child and, and the other was more chill, right? But my fiery one because she's firing it creates curiosities and space right with other kids. And I don't, I don't actually experience her as wrong. I don't experience any children as wrong quite honestly. Ay, ay, ay, consider all of those moments are opportunities for us all to learn. And I think some of that old way of unschooling was so hands off. And I don't agree with that on any level. I think especially in a culture which it looks like the one we live in, and especially with our traumas, as human beings that we absolutely need to sort of be together as we learned to form community. Children need support with their emotions children need with support with how they interact with each other. schooling is not just sitting on your blanket for eight hours while your kids hash it out by themselves.

That's not my concept of it. But you know, these, this is again where for me and I'll straight up, it always comes back to shadow work, because if you do the work too, to deconstruct these, these aspects of self that don't allow you to perceive wider and and and, and maybe causing a view to show up in space with an unconscious presence that is violent. You know, if we do the work we would have a much more expansive experience with each other. And as opposed to having to consistently battle with people who are who are married to their unconsciousness because they're thrown a few extra carrots and are willing to act in depraved ways that they don't even recognize. But they are utterly accountable for and that they choose. And all those things are true. You can act in ways that you don't recognize, that you are accountable for and that you are choosing, because we have the opportunity to look at something or not. It might be a split second. But we are obligated to evolve our capacities to recognize those opportunities, especially if we are from the dominant culture, the oppressive culture. Because if you're from the oppressive culture, and you're going around, and you're saying I'm not racist, I'm not racist, and all the I'm a good person talk. And yet, people of color are consistently experiencing your racism and then you go, No, it's not true. And then the entirety of the of this space rallies behind that because that's the culture we can evolve. and grow. And I'm going to go ahead and take a shot at the dark and say that all people most people want something better than what we have. And so if you do, you got to show up for that shift do the work.

Tiffany 26:19

And you gotta take it that feedback as a gift. Like I really think that if people could change their way of thinking when you're given feedback, any kind of feedback I know I do when someone tells me I hurt them as much as me like especially like if us online like me, I want to fight right? So like that comes out. But then being able to recognize why I'm so upset like shit, and ask myself like, Who the fuck did I just hurt calms me down and stuff like maybe sometimes at the end of the day, I don't agree with it, but it doesn't mean it's not valid. Someone said I hurt them. Then I heard them. I don't have to understand or see why or how I can try and if I can't Get there yet. I've learned more likely than not that it's just like I still have work to do. But the last thing I need to tell that person is like no, that's your shit, not mine. You know?

Genesis 27:14

But you know, that's the disembodied men of whiteness in this culture. And I always speak to whiteness. And white people absolutely embody whiteness, and other people do to call them white or Jason's. But, you know, whiteness is a it's an ugly ass thing. It's, it's, it's a really ugly thing. And I think that it's so ugly, that this is why there's so much gaslighting because people don't want to face just how they are. People don't want to look in the mirror and stand in the burn of what they're looking at. They'd rather be playing By then face it. And that's, that's, you know, that's what this culture creates. So May we all, you know, in our, in our time have a have a, I kind of see this whole circumstances collective Shadow Work right now. But you know in these in these very curious times, maybe I'll be self reflective right about how we each and all show up in space. Let's draw our attention to those moments where we are given these opportunities, gifted these opportunities, through our ancestry through other people do the universe, whatever your mythology is, it doesn't matter as long as the work is rolling. So, you know, just bringing our attention to our presence, so that, you know, quite honestly, accountability is liberation. Right. If I'm If I'm accountable for how I flow in space, what I believe the patterns of my thoughts and powers, it's empowering. And I have there's less space for my manipulation, quite honestly, because I'm not just gonna be unconscious, right? If I'm accountable, which is a sacred thing, then when I show up in space, that's, that's something that lives in me as a core value. And so I'm not going to be lazy with just allow lack of integrity and a lack of presence with what I throw into space, I'm actually going to be present, cultivate my presence all the time, so that when I'm in spaces, I can be as integris as I can in those, and it's not a perfect science. I make mistakes all the time. But the difference is, I'm accountable for my mistakes. And I own them. And I do whatever I need to reconcile the places where I need to reconcile and then I do the learning that I need to do to grow. And instead of avoiding these spaces, we live in a culture. You know, this is what I was talking about earlier, is canceled culture. You know, I both understand it, and I disagree with it. I think it doesn't allow for a healing culture when you just cancel a person because they've made a mistake. And of course, there's going to be context to this right. Nothing is always true all the time. But are rare things are, but I think it's really important that it's particularly with oppressed people, right, who may embody whiteness oppressed people that We offer grace. Oftentimes there is a sincerity and there is a healing that, you know, that needs to happen or that that's asking to happen. And so I'm not I'm not really quick to shut a person down because they make a mistake, right or, or, and, and I hope that people would respond to me that way because my sincerity is present in space. It's never my intention to hurt another person. But sometimes that's going to happen because we're all traumatized, right? We're all sort of trying to evolve out of this, this space, and we're all imperfect. And that's the perfection of humanity that is that we're on this journey together. And in but in the case of whiteness, and in the case of like kancil culture around whiteness, that's a different conversation. And then context in that, but when you have an entire culture that is accustomed to anti blackness, an entire culture that unconsciously just oppresses, there's a certain level of cancelling that shit out in all ways that that needs to go down. And so white people need to really show up and not show up for their work, so that they can make less and less of these errors in space. You make too many of those is starting to look like you're not doing anything. And, and this is, you know, a song I heard in a diversity dialogue around people wondering how to make homeschooling groups more inclusive. The dialogue was happening and I and I saw some of the answers is dealing with the ashes of a cigarette instead of the cigarette itself. Which is you want to make your spaces more inclusive, do the work so that when you're with people People that are of diverse nature, you're not consistently violent. Do the work of healing yourself so that you can be present whole and honoring of other people in your space. There is no fake way, disembodied way to bring that into a homeschooling group, people of color, any oppressed group is going to feel that instantly that it's not real, that you're just doing all the things that you're being super, super nice, but that really it's because you're uncomfortable. I think, you know, white people need to recognize their obligations outside of the immediate circumstance. They've been conditioned to be what they are for hundreds and hundreds of years and the conditioning. The conditions for that conditioning was happening before that before And I speak from the American situation. But before why people even arrived to this land, the conditions were happening for whiteness, right? So they need to recognize that this is actually spiritual work. This is journeyed work, this is not something you can fix, you know what your intellectual ism or with your happy, happy Joy Joy, it doesn't work like that this is work that is going to be for forever work. It does get to a place where there is a recognition of your evolution in space sometimes like I can see when people are doing the work and doing the work and doing the work. There's an ease that I evolve in those spaces and, and, and there's a you know, Sisterhood of sisterhood. These constructs of whiteness, for me are not relevant, except that they're constructs that we all exist. Then, once I get to sisterhood with a person, their colors are relevant to me their experiences, what's relevant their identity is what's relevant their ancestry is what's relevant. The whole of them is what's relevant. whiteness is isn't really a real thing out of a psychic construct. So, you know, if people do their work to actually be embodied in space, to actually recognize and be accountable to what whiteness and colonialism has done to black people, to indigenous people, and now to immigrants. You know, if they could bring their accountability to that space, then we can.

Tiffany 35:52

Yeah, I totally think and I think when people ask me, because I think some times when people are doing their work, they want it. No If it's good enough, they're asking for it to be tested. They wanted. They want approval they want. I don't know, you fill in the blank, is it? Am I doing it right? And my always my question is, how many people have you pissed off? Are you doing it right then yes, you've pissed off your group of people that thought they knew you. And then now they're figuring out they don't. Because they think there is an intellectual ized way I've seen people do the work that sticks into this little contained box. And they they are that way in certain groups of people, but when they're in their larger group of people they revert back to before they did the work, because they want to keep the peace and they want to keep the relationships. Right. I'm at conference, somebody asked that question. I don't think it was I was in the same group as talk as you were in. But they said how can how do you know if a group is safe? And my response was, how do they take feedback? That's how I know if a group is working towards actually doing the work is the way they handle the feedback. If, if they can or they don't know if they can't tell you how they handle feedback, then no, it's it's probably not as bad. I mean, do it at your own risk, like going with your eyes open, right? Because I think right now the push is for this fake inclusivity this this fake. I'm a good person. I'm not a racist, so don't put me in that category. And we welcome everybody. Okay, well, that's a nice sentiment but like, do you understand when you make those statements you have the ability to create so much harm if that's not true. Um, so many of us are lacking community. And so many of us who are burnt out trying to find community.

Genesis 38:05

I heard that

Tiffany 38:08

that's like I touched that Stove by touching it again and getting burnt like that. I'm not letting my kids get burnt like that again. But then you are like, okay, these people look like me. They're saying the same things as me, but they're so white adjacent. That it's like it happens all over again. Right? And that cancer culture that you're talking about, I need to hear more about that because I in my own life, my personal life, like if you hurt me, if you show me who you are, I will believe for the first time and I check you off my list. I do that to my family, to friends to relationships. It is how I protect myself. And I think it has a lot to do with my childhood abuse but it is what I've learned to work through or navigate my world. I've also learned the negative like how the impact of how that works, because is

like me and my sister me and my sister 13 months apart. And our kids are our older our her only and my oldest are two years apart. And because me and her could not get along our children who were very tight growing up, like last connection, right? And so like, I've seen the impact of choosing to cancel somebody out your life, because maybe it's healthier for you as a person, but I saw the impact in our kids. And so, um, and now we can talk. I mean, we don't talk a lot, but you know, it's civil. And so I have a hard time not doing that to people, not canceling them out when they show me who they are.

Genesis 39:53

Well, I want to be really clear that when I'm speaking about kancil culture it is In the way that I'm meaning it's contextual familial relationships. Those those have ancestral aspects and certain complications. It's a, you know, it's generally not like a person made one mistake so I'm never talking to you again type of thing like I'm more speaking about the way a person can make one mistake and then they get ousted. And, and what that does to a human being, if we're trying to inspire a healing culture, it doesn't. It sort of cuts them off, possibly affects their income and their social lives. The kids socialize in it doesn't you know that all they can do is deal with the with the hurt of that, the resentment of that. And often that can pour into what they what they said and space and their mythology might make that right. Right or make that truth in their head because they have all this negativity that came from it. My thing about it is, you know, I understand what you mean about people tell you who they say that that's real, but also true in space is I understand sincerity. And I make room for that. If I experienced sincerity. You know, I have presence with it. It doesn't mean that I'm willing to offer loads of emotional labor for free. That shitting going down. But it does mean that I respect a sincere effort. And I will show up in the ways that feel right? whatever that might be contextually. So, yeah, I just think that as we evolve this culture and move forward that we need to start to think about how some of our choices affect, you know, some of the patterns that we're moving from affect space. And I think that idea of cancelling a person out is not going to take us anywhere good on whole. I think we just need to bring our attention to that. Create a situation that allows people to grow safely, safely. It's always curious when we're talking right because, you know, if I'm talking to white people, my conversations are slightly different. than if I'm talking to bipoc, right. And this conversation has sort of abdun flowed into both places. So for white people, they need to actually stop trying to cling to safety. And they need to actually just show up for the fucking work. And because they are so utterly fragile, and that's what whiteness does to white people is it makes them really violently fragile. To the degree that they don't feel like it. And I always address white women primarily. But to the degree that they just don't feel like they can. And I and I, and I spoke to it, I find it very curious how they can do a million woman March right. And they can show for all the things that that benefit themselves, but all of a sudden when it comes around rate comes to racism. In no spaces, they don't know what to do, or they tremble and cry. And I'm not talking about in bodied whole soulful crying. When you are at a reckoning with yourself I'm talking about that avoidant crying when you don't want to face who you are. So that so whiteness is a whole different conversation, but with bipoc

Cutie Pie BIPCO, right? queer trans bypass sucks, um, you know, for us, I think we need to offer a whole lot of grace, we're oppressed, and we're all trying to figure out how to how to be in space and where there might be injuries across across groupings. And I think this is why I want to talk about it because there's no saltiness, right? It's gonna happen but so that we can deal with it honestly, so that we can start to evolve new patterns of, of being with each other. We don't have to we don't have to recreate these colonized constructs with each other. We don't have to be that we are decolonizing and we can liberate ourselves from Got scarcity from that hierarchy. I can hold your pain Tiffany, and it doesn't dilute my own way. Both both are valid in space. And we can, we can evolve a circumstance that allows us to heal, whatever that might be, you're gonna have different needs from me, right? And then there's going to be the needs that we have together, healing together. And these are the kinds of dialogues I want to I want to have with people rather than wait for it to hit the fan because we're all affected by colonialism. It's It's, it's, it's not enough to just come. Come for the whiteness and white people. We have to comfort in our selves to an anti blackness for real.

Tiffany 45:46

Yeah, I think that's what I hope. Maybe hope is not the right word. It's why your voice and what you're doing, your writings are so needed because they think that bridge of how I think we all want to get there at some point, especially people that have been doing the work and like, for me, I feel so frustrated. Because I'm not where I want to be. As far as even though like, I do the work and then I backslide. And then I and then I realized, like, I do the work here and then I backslide, and then I, you know, like, and then also just feeling like especially in the homeschool and school community, um, Erica, we're at a board meeting and she brought up a talk I did in Portland at the life is good conference, unschooling conference, I was there. I totally forgot about that conference. I totally forgot I did anything at that conference. Because at that point, Erica had called, well, she always does your talks, but she she kind of ends up with like, at the time was like, if you don't see yourself reflected, then get up and start doing the work to see others because until you do, other people won't see that. They have based here too. And so that's what prompted me to start getting up. But I was so nervous because I'm an introvert, to say anything and do anything and and to really feel like I didn't have the tools I needed to be even doing the work. Like I didn't even know that's what I was doing. You know what I mean? Like I didn't, I wasn't looking at resources, I wasn't looking at inclusivity or I just knew that there was so many spaces I would show up to and not be included, or, or not be invited or just treated like nicety like, Oh, well, you know, okay, I'm glad you're here, but like, just don't try to belong to us. And you can be fine as long as you don't do that. And so that's what, that's why I started to begin and I remember doing that. I remember doing the privilege walk there. And it was brought to my attention that I had done about race and ends and social economic issues, but not about the LGBTQ space. And so the next I read I readjusted, right. And so I kind of feel like if you're going to be doing the work, especially just from what I've seen, I have friends, white women who have done the work and the content, it doesn't end. It's not like you take a course and you read. I've also had women say, Well, I read all the books, so I'm fine. I'm in front of me. I have a podcast right there. So other podcasts, right? Because there's not like when we say do the work, it's not take a course. Read a book, join a book club, adopt kids from other countries. I've seen people do all these things to prove to themselves or other people that they're not bias or racist. Instead of just embrace that we have all grown up like Erica says in the soup of what this is racism and anti blackness and anti indigenous culture. anti immigrant culture and so we're all swimming in it. And some of us have life experiences to pull from where we've done the work because it's, we're living it and some of us get to escape it because it doesn't touch us until it does or tell somebody calls on to your actions. But as I see now more and more bi p OC spaces being created in the homeschool and school world. My fear is that because these conversations like the ones you're bringing up the Shadow Work aren't being talked about or done. It's gonna be that infighting and the blowing up of those spaces that are so needed, I guess we all want to sit there and like be able to have community like I love that that I can go to a space and see you or Molly or Lori or you know all of us and we We can have these deep, deep conversations for hours that start off with us just fucking around, or Sarah happy to see each other. When we leave those spaces that we're safe in or that I can say, you can tell me, Hey, this is what you're not seeing, or I can say this, and we're safe to them going and creating like, I've seen all these spaces pop up, they fail because they're like, nobody's having the dialogue or the has the work for Shadow Work, dude, I mean, like, they just want it, they don't want the bad they want all the good. Now they've had enough of the bad. They think because everybody looks like me. And we've all kind of are looking for the same thing. It's going to be this magical space that we all can kind of come into and be happy. And I'm not saying that those spaces can't be happy. But I think in order for them to survive, they need that conversation they need those conversations just start happening.

Genesis 50:56

I think that we're all Learning, we're all in discovery. And I think that even the things that we're talking about are coming up in other spaces and the recognition of that. Shadow Work is a term that is, is is really a formlessness of there's a, it exists in space, right? I like to name it because I find that when I name something, it brings it into space, space at birth. It makes it a seed for a person. And then I don't care what people call it. You know, if the name is not relevant, the practice is what's relevant. And also true. You know, I've been I've been doing this practice for more than 20 years just it's just how I move. And what I've learned is that the burn when you make a mistake, and and I don't mean mistakes in the way that we experienced them in the English language. I mean, you know, When you're a human being, right, we're all human beings, right? And the burn when that shows up. You know, I enjoy that feeling. And I and I use that word, honestly. I enjoy the feeling of being challenged on something that doesn't feel indigenous to who I am doesn't feel true to who I am. I enjoy the burden of that. Right? Like because I know that that burn. It's like, you know, my husband and I were talking about it, my partner and I, you know, he works out a lot. He loves to work out. And it's like, it's similar like you work out your muscles are burning, is that good burn, right? It's that did burn because you know, you're, you're evolving or expanding and growing in the ways that you're growing. To grow, evolve and expand, and I find the burnin Shadow Work very similarly. I think that the issue is that the fragility around it is cultural. I think indigenous cultures, before colonialism had Shadow Work in, integrated in animism. I think we're, we are led to avoid aspects of who we are. And a lot of that comes from certain interpretations of religions that, you know, Eve bad and evil comes from another place. And then all I have to do is go and repent. That doesn't inspire accountability and I never come for people's religions always state that I come from interpretations of religions. What does it inspire in your humanity and how do you show up because of your interpretation?

So I I think that you know, the need is to, or what I would want to inspire in space is that we get to a place where we're not so fragile around facing our demons if you will, our our uglies, you know, and that you know we can actually even be celebratory of that and and create a culture that is celebrate Tory of moving through hard things. Because that's real life. That's a whole embodied life. Life is not happy, happy Joy, joy. You know, it doesn't exist to that. It's like that manic happiness that's disembodied and not real and like you're smiling, but really, your skin is cracking because it's not. You're not smiling from the deepest parts of you. It's like putting on a face. That's not real. what's real is grief happens what's real as pain happens. What's really as death happens. And, you know, we have to move through all those things. And all this, all of it inclusive of joys and happiness. All of it is part of the whole and we need to stop being addicted to one emotionality or another. We need to just bring our presence to being whole. And we need to bring our resilience to being whole. We absolutely have the capacity to do that. And I think and I think it's important for us to challenge ourselves in those ways. You know,

Tiffany 55:44

The challenge if we're already challenged, raising people and raising ourselves I think that that's if we want healing that's the way it's gonna work. Dude, I mean, like, that's, that's where you start. If you start nowhere else, it doesn't even have to be outwardly male and like, I mean people know when you're doing the work even if you say nothing about it are starting to and like I always encourage I think I like as you made me think of there's one person that like, comes to mind when I think about I see her doing the work really messy. She's trying, you know, and and, and that try means more to me than her anyway, what ways that I'm like, and the fact that she will take you know, feedback in that work because they know that takes a lot to put yourself out there and then like, like, I used to always say like, I felt like whack a mole. Like I would try and somebody would just whacked me on the head like, you know, those games he played in arcades? Yeah. Because it was like nope, like that like that and not like it was a lot of unlearning. And then even when I think I learned like, you know, you brought it to me That's whiteness, right? So I think if you're, the more willing your people are to putting themselves out there, the less harm they're going to cause and the more space they make to invite people to heal. Because when one I think it's collectively when we one heels event, it starts a ripple effect. Because those connected to you start to notice a difference. And they want to know what and then it opens up them for dialogue. And I think of anything of it's not the people around you, it's the people you're raising. Because they know when I started doing the work, Dylan especially It was like, he got so much shit for it from his friends calling me a social justice warrior, whatever the kids you know, they were, I was disrupting their normal. And I had raised them with white, all white kids. And so I get it, they were angry because their parents were angry. And now I see how At first he wasn't so happy but the ripple effects in his life and how he's grown even when he there was things that maybe he didn't want to look at. or and still growing. And even like Logan, who is I always joke like, was not joking. Like he is my kid I could raise the most biggest douchebag if I wanted to, because he is so self involved. And he sees his world and he, he loves himself, which I don't you know, to me, I'm like for someone who's worked on self esteem issues like I love watching how much power he has in himself. But what I do need and I always watch out for with him his consent and expanding his perspectives, because his fairness meter is on what's fair to him, not necessarily what's fair to the larger group. Um,

yeah. And so there's one other aspect but that's why I keep putting things in his way. where the, where there's opportunity to have conversations and at the end of the day of his, I'm not trying to change his viewpoint, I am trying to expand his viewpoint. Because I don't think as a parent, my job is to fix him because I don't think he's broken. I think he came into the world exactly the way he's supposed to be for the exactly what he's supposed to take on in the world, or his part in the world is. But I also know I believe in generational trauma. And I believe in I come from a long line of men who abused women and and so has my husband. And so I'm very, very cautious raising him in what is normalized and what is what we talk about and topics that are talking about because I'm not saying because it happened in every generation, he's going to do it, but there's tendencies I see That I I I bring to the table and then whatever he wants to do with that he does with it but well I will I am not willing to do is dismiss it because it's uncomfortable but it is a line that I want

Genesis 1:00:16

to bring it up a whole nother Hebrew bring as many different podcasts Have you brought up today? Oh my goodness. We're gonna have five more times of these.

Tiffany 1:00:27

Yeah, right talk about spaghetti. Um, I know I don't want to keep the on going and we've talked longer than I did. I said we would but um, I've asked every guest um so when I first said, well, in the welcome episode I talked about like where the name came from homeschooling home girls. But what does that mean to you when you hear it?

Genesis 1:00:50

Haha it I feel seen And for me and my journey that's everything because I tend to be my tendency was always to just stay to myself without my thoughts and my perceptions and all my experiences that are not welcome in space so just the feel of it homeschooling home girls right the feel of it. It's like neighborhood street that feels juicy to me. I feel welcome. And quite honestly, my my welcome I feel with that. Not good You know, he, first of all, you created the name, but also just that is you. You create the space. You've evolved space in ways that I really honor. So it just makes me feel good and makes me feel good. It's it came from you. Because I feel it. Like I feel it. Mom girl and we homeschool. Well, you know, I don't know. Like, I don't know, I don't I don't even really call myself homeschooling anymore. Like, I just kind of, I'm living it. We're all living, you know? No. But absolutely, it feels it feels good. It feels welcoming, and it feels like those kinds of spaces. I want it to be in whole time, right. But this is the time so I'm cherishing it, and I appreciate it.

Tiffany 1:02:58

Thank you for being in this space. base. As always, I mean, your conversations can go like, one time I go the first time we met we met for breakfast and we shut down the restaurant at nighttime when they kicked us out. Yeah, we did that long but and that was our first we almost shut

Genesis 1:03:17

it down the second time to

Tiffany 1:03:22

just I think it's so rare to find people least in my lifetime to be able to just talk with someone so openly and let things flow and let them go where they're supposed to be without any pretenses because I'm always in my head. So like when I'm having a conversation I'm having a conversation with in my head conversation. Because I'm always viewed as, as too much. So I'm always trying to Team myself or pull back or do you know, I don't know. And my brain is like spaghetti, everything touches. So I might be talking about art and then end up like I don't know about the evolution of whatever I'm into at the moment. And they were like, how'd you get from here to there? And I'm like, oh, cuz in my head it made sense. Like I had this whole dialogue, but you missed in the middle. But don't ever feel that way. I kind of feel like, you know, you give me a lot to think about and I really appreciate who you are as a person and what you bring. I think you bring so much healing to every space that you're in.

Genesis 1:04:31

I'm gratitude for that.

Tiffany 1:04:33

It's been two hours. I'm so sorry. I'm so good. glad, you're in this space. And if What's one thing you want people to walk away with? I know we talked a lot about

Genesis 1:04:45

but what Oh, God,

Tiffany 1:04:47

What's on what's on your heart ?

Genesis 1:04:52

You know, what's always what always stands in front for me what always is present. You know, and it always has to be Granted when I'm talking to white people when I'm talking about BIPOC if I'm talking to white people fucking accountable, your beat you have your accountability is obligated, reparations is obligated. Returning land is obligated. All that work, you know all the time while you're trying to show up and do your, your your ally ship. You need to recognize that, that a lot of what I see white women doing is that they center the work on themselves and then freeing themselves from the idea of whiteness, and that is part of it. But the other whole part of it is accountability. reparations work. Land returning, wealth, returning, paying people for their work, finding ways to create opportunities to pay people, people of color for their work, they need to show up and do their work. So that's what I would have to say to white people.

And what I would say to BIPOC cutie BIPOC is that we need to bring grace to each other spaces. As we heal. We need to have a little bit more presence with each other. Let me rephrase that. I want to invite grace. I keep seeing I see us make mistakes and we can come so hard for each other. It's like and I'm talking about cutie pie BIPOC. I'm talking about LGBTQ. I'm talking about black people. I'm talking about Latin people. I'm talking about indigenous people and all those interests. sections, right? We need to get in front of any colonized, thinking as much as we're capable, and learn to be with each other in healthy ways, not hierarchical ways, you know, learn to be together horizontally rather than competing. That's not our shit. Right? That's, that's not our world. We are about learning how to hold diversity as sacred. And that's our sacred work is to create space for all the needs. And it is utterly possible to do that. That might have been too many words.

Tiffany 1:07:34

No, it's beautiful. I think it's a reminder that we need I think when we're all trying to get our voices heard and then try not to trample other people trying to get their voice heard and still create communities. So I think that reminder of grace,

Genesis 1:07:50

That's that we just like we learn to be embodied in each other's space., We learn to come from a place of love and wideness with each other and with our healing, we're going to make mistakes. We're going to we're going to . That needs to be forgiveness where there's sincerity. And, you know, there's places with white adjacency where I, you know, if that shit is rigid and you don't want to budge, I'm gonna come for you to, you know what I mean? I don't I don't fuck around with that. But if I see sincerity you know, I meet that with my own. And if I see you come in with some, you know, disembodied violence and you're married to that shit, I'm gonna come for your ego. I always consider myself as coming as as working toward Liberation's of spirits, Liberation's of soul. What I do is I come from egos that are not in alignment, when egos take over a person's space. So I'm always working for soulful liberation no matter what color you are, but I'm not gentle because sometimes egos most times. gentleness is not the way to get through. Not around issues like racism or sexism or LGBTQ+ discrimination or trans hatred even within that community. There are certain places where gentleness is does not get the job done. I come real. So i don't apologize for that. Because racism is ugly, the shits ugly the shit is ugly shit. Nobody wants to be plagued by that. I think every soul wants liberation, even if they don't know it. it that too many words?

Tiffany 1:09:42

Nah Beautiful words.I would like to give you back to your family but to your space. But yeah, we can connect more . I really recommend I'm going to be posting Genesis blog but you know if you want to book her for workshops, because let me tell you mind blowing workshop she held for us at HSC they created so much space or interviews or whatever also I'll put her information because she has a lot of healing to give the world

Genesis 1:10:20

Gratitude and grace for that . Love, love, love. Love you dearly.

Tiffany 1:10:27

Love you too.

Genesis 1:10:28

All right, you all , thanks for having me

Tiffany 1:10:34

Thanks for kicking it with us today. Want to talk about homeschooling and unschooling in between episodes. Follow us on Instagram. @Homeschooling home girls. Enjoy the process of raising empowered people. You got this!

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